Monday, November 16, 2009

2 In The Flesh - Results

Alright, thanks for the comments on the 2 live action hands. I got a nice range of responses.

Hand 1)
Preflop: 4 limpers, I have Ad-Ts in the BB and check. Pot is $11.
Flop: Th-6c-3s. I lead for $7, 1 MP calls, CO raises to $30. MP has $80 behind, CO has $110 behind. What's the best play here?

This is a really awkward spot. The flop is ultra-dry, and I'm getting my TPTK raised by a non-aggro villain. It looks pretty strong. At the time we were playing, I thought there had to be a good chance that he had a set of 3's or 6's. But I convinced myself that he might make this play with KT or AT, or possibly 45. After all, I'm leading from the SB, so he has to think that I may be leading a lot of T-x hands that can't stand a raise. So I called, thinking I could get away if the 45 OESD got there, or if something like a Q or K peeled and he kept blasting away. The MP girl folded.

So the pot was $78. The turn was an A, giving me top 2 but not really changing anything if my read was right. I checked, he bet another $30, and after some deliberation I decided to ship in the rest. I figured he may still call with KT, not expecting the A to have helped me. Or, he may make a bad call with 45 and try to river his straight. He tanked for a minute and then called off his last $80. He showed 3-6 for a flopped 2-pair, and the river bricked.

We jawed at each other a little bit afterwards, with him basically calling me a donkey for thinking my AT was good after his flop raise, and me countering that I didn't expect a decent player to be in there with 3-6. I told him I thought he might make that raise with a T, and he said he would never do that.

Good call by Wonka, Mojo, Meister. Bad call by me (and great turn!), and especially bad call by Hef. :)

But in all seriousness, I don't think I would ever re-pop that flop, at least not against this villain. It's a limped pot, so a 3-bet here is only getting called by better hands - sets and 2-pairs. It was a mistake to add 4-5 to his range, and that's the only hand you would want to be 3-betting for value on the flop. The last thing we want to do against KT is 3-bet and let him get away easily.

Another point on this hand is my initial comment - it's harder for me to lay down hands like this live, since the action is so much slower, and it's hard to know how long it will be until you get a hand as playable as TPTK. And since I only get 3-5 hour live action windows, sometimes I can go for entire sessions without much happening. So I force things to happen, which rarely turns out good. But this was one of those fortunate times.

Hand 2)
Villain in this hand has a small clue about how to play, but has no idea how to size his bets, and I have seen him make some random bluffs.

Preflop: I won the previous pot so I post a $5 kill and I'm on the button. 2 EP player limp and I check 45o. SB folds and BB calls. Pot is $21.
Flop: 7-8-Q rainbow. It checks around to me and I check it through.
Turn: 6. UTG limper leads for $7, UTG+1 calls, and I call. Pot is $40.
River: 8. UTG leads for $23. UTG+1 folds. It's on me and UTG has $60 behind. Hero?

I thought it was interesting how many of you are suggesting a river shove here, especially when the river card is so ugly, pairing the board and putting me behind a bunch of hands. Only Mojo seemed committed to a call, everyone else suggesting a shove. I was actually waffling between calling and folding.

Let's examine the action - UTG checks the flop and then leads the turn...this suggests a couple possibilities:
a) He had a big hand on the flop and was hoping to trap (Q8/77/88...78 less likely, since I think most people would bet to protect a vulnerable bottom 2 pair)
b) He has made a hand on the turn and wants to get value (66/76/86/9T/59/54)
c) He now feels good about a weak made hand after the flop checked through (Q-x/8-x)
d) He has decided to bluff or semi-bluff (5-x/9-x) from OOP with a small 1/3 pot bet.

Now on the river, the 8 pairs, and he leads out again from OOP, and this time for more (still only about 1/2 pot, but I think in his eyes it was a big bet). To my mind, this eliminates all of the Q-x hands in category c), and also eliminates some of the hands in category b), like 76. What's left? A bunch of boats, some 8-x hands, and the unlikely bluff. It's a small pot and I'm only in it b/c I posted a kill...do I really want to ship it here and risk dumping off 50BBs in a limped pot?

I actually thought he was strong, and had it been a bigger pot, I may well have folded. But I made what I thought was the crying call, mainly on the thought that he would be making this bet with a wide range of 8-x hands. He showed A-6, which really falls into the unlikely bluff category. Shipping wouldn't have gotten a call here, but it's worth wondering whether it would have gotten a call from 8-x.

I had a pretty solid session, starting with $160 and leaving with $410, so now I'm all psyched to get back out there again. Back home, I'm still grinding PLO, but I'm losing patience, so I may be back at the 6-max NLHE games before too long.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

In my defense, I figured 6-3 was the top end of his range for H1, which is another justification for the re-raise. After you lead the flop and then 3-bet him, can he really stand the heat with bottom two pair? He would also have to factor in the fact that you were in the BB and could easily have a BB Special hand like 10-6 or 10-3 and does he want to call or come back over the top when he might be drawing to 2 outs?

Hef

The Poker Meister said...

Hand #2: Perhaps it was not a bluff; perhaps he thought 2 pair 88/66 would be good.

ZachSellsMagic said...

So we're supposed to put villain on the only hand in his entire range that possibly, and only possibly, folds to a raise and then go ahead and pound that flop?

Sounds great.

noldmax said...

Hef - the top end of his range is 66/33, not 36. And if I include 36 in his range, we have to ask whether we really think we can fold that hand out. Not sure you can have your cake and eat it here - our shove is either for value or a bluff, not both. It should depend on what we think he likely holds, and whether he will likely call or not.

Anonymous said...

If he has 66/33 then so be it, but I'm not giving him credit for that big of a hand given the large re-raise on such a dry board. Why scare everyone away? Also, I mentioned 6-3 as the very top end of his range, but it's not what I actually put him on. I had put him on KT or QT and figured that he would actually call our re-raise for value. My point was just that if he does happen to have 6-3, he at least has to consider folding it given the extreme strength that we're showing. Either way, we could get called by a worse hand or force a better hand to fold out.

Hef